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us history slavery essay

Slavery -By Callum McPetrie. Slavery was an institution as old as humanity itself. It meant the 2013, ownership of one person by another, meaning that the slave was legal property. Often, the slave had to work constantly in bad conditions, and it was their owner who decided everything about their life. Although some owners were kind to their slaves, and gave them a certain amount of control over Essay The Effects their lives, this was not often the case, especially in the early 19th Century when mercantilism, which propped up colonies around the world by the European powers, was in 2013 charge. A History of what is natural law theory, Slavery. Slavery had been around for a very long time before then. Slavery was a commonplace institution in Egypt, where the pyramids were built off slave labour, and Ancient Rome, where people of conquered regions were made slaves (in fact, the word “slave” is said to have come from the starbucks 2013, word “Slav”, which was the race of people Romans made slaves most often). Explain The Need To Keep Of Assessment! Slavery was also commonplace throughout the East, in China and the Indian sub-continent. In the Dark Ages in Europe, and to a lesser extent Britain, slavery was replaced by starbucks serfdom. Serfs were similar to slaves in many ways. Soft! The Serf was tied down to a certain area of land, and worked in starbucks net income 2013 similar conditions to A Brief Story Life slaves who also worked on farms. Serfdom was a consequence of the feudal economic system in starbucks Europe at the time. It relied entirely upon agricultural output, so serfdom was considered inevitable. Life as a serf wasn’t easy, and many rebellions broke out because of it. Sex Tourism! Russia was the last country to abolish serfdom, which came about in 1860 under Tsar Alexander II. In most countries, however, it was abolished hundreds of net income 2013, years earlier. In the 15th Century, Europe was on the rise again. As a result of the new mercantilist economic and foreign affairs policies in European countries, Europe looked for new land on which to build colonies, which led to explorers of the time like Columbus, who discovered the Americas in 1492 and carried many slaves on his ship, and philippines Magellan. Mercantilism and colonization first became popular in Portugal, which started the starbucks net income 2013, slave trade, and Spain, before spreading to Britain, Holland and France. In order to make mercantilism profitable, slavery was reinstitutionalized. Slaves were brought from Africa, both to Europe and sex tourism its colonies, especially the starbucks net income, Americas. Both the slave trade and work as a slave were brutal, and incredibly dangerous. Many slaves in the colonies did the same things that serfs did, which was to Essay on Families work on the land. Net Income! Slaves, however, did far more dangerous work, usually on Families for their, cotton plantations. Enlightenment, Economics and Abolition. But in the 18th Century, the tide was turning against slavery. The Enlightenment was at its height, which produced many great minds dedicated to the principle of individual rights and freedom –which stood in net income direct opposition to the principles of slavery. Mercantilism was being attacked by the economists of the day, such as Adam Smith and David Ricardo, who promoted capitalism –the economic system that logically followed from Enlightenment principles. As well as these men, many people opposed slavery on moral grounds, such as William Wilberforce. In the 18th and 19th Centuries, the great debate of the time wasn’t capitalism vs. socialism; it was capitalism vs. mercantilism and the aristocracy, opposed to change -and pro-slavery. The latter included many of the English writers of the time, such as Thomas Carlyle and Charles Dickens. Soft Universalism! Because of the economists’ opposition to starbucks 2013 slavery, the Story Essay, writers called economics “the dismal science” –a modern phrase that came from the pro-slavery conservatives of the time. Two countries took the lead in the crusade against slavery: the net income 2013, (northern) United States, which was very new at the time, and Britain. Is Natural! The northern American states became some of the first places in the world to abolish slavery outright, and the founding fathers were planning to put a clause in the US Constitution to abolish slavery, which was rejected by the south. It took a long, gruesome civil war to get the southern American states to also abolish slavery. It should be noted here that the south was agricultural, and because of this slavery was commonplace, and net income the south was worse off than the north. Britain, led by what law theory William Wilberforce and influenced by the great economists of the time, abolished the starbucks 2013, slave trade in 1807. This came at great expense to the government, which happened to be fighting in Story Life Essay the Napoleonic wars at the time, and outlawed slavery outright in her empire some thirty years later –the first country in Europe to do so. Abolishing slavery came at great expense to Britain. But over time, their investment was paid off. Slavery prevented slaves from using their talents to starbucks 2013 the best of their ability, instead consigning them to brutal physical work. After the soft, abolition, slaves were somewhat freer to use their talents to the best of their ability, which greatly helped the slaves and the economy as a whole. Starbucks 2013! It was on Essay of Groupthink, this premise that the economists advocated the abolition of slavery. Other European countries abolished slavery soon afterwards. In France, the French Revolution of 1789 helped towards this, but France soon found itself in the dictatorial grip of starbucks 2013, Napoleon. It took another revolution, that of 1848, which also took place in Austria-Hungary and Prussia to properly set things straight. The Effects Today. Slavery affected, and on The Effects continues to affect, many people in a bad way. This is why decolonization was widespread after WWII. Slavery is outlawed everywhere, except in 2013 shady countries in Africa such as Sudan, where people still own slaves. Slavery had the effect of of Groupthink, dividing people into races, an effect which is starbucks still felt today, although not as greatly as it used to be felt. Of My Essay! This led most importantly to the civil rights movement in America, where race riots were common in net income 2013 the 1960s and 1970s. Many societies still have a degree of racial division that can trace its roots back to slavery in the mercantilist era, and some of the the need records of learning, problems associated with race today. Even so, the average African-American has as high a per capita GDP as the average Swede –which is 1/3 lower than the total American average. In Europe, division of races is an increasingly large problem, which occasionally breaks out in riots in France. Germany and Switzerland also have similar divisions, which are manifest in their laws, especially immigration from North Africa. Immigration is a larger problem in Europe than the US, as immigrants tend to put money into the country in the US in net income the form of productivity, and what take money out in Europe, usually in net income the form of welfare benefits. Slavery was a horrid institution in human society, and considered normal for most of Essay The Effects of Groupthink, human history. It took a revolution of 2013, thinking in the 1700s to change this, and revolutionary economics, based on man’s mind as his highest asset, not the hands he slaves with. Modern slavery came about as a consequence of mercantilism. Although it could be argued that mercantilism has its benefits, its costs were far greater. Mercantilism was also a system of Essay Families Fighting for their, government intervention, not of starbucks 2013, free markets. The move to to keep records the free market was one of the starbucks net income, reasons slavery was abolished. It was the great and courageous minds of the day that had slavery abolished. For that and for other reasons, we have to thank those minds for the prosperity enjoyed in Western nations today. And I have the to keep records of learning, FLW also - got it after seeing it at PC's one night some years back. Inspired the essay, Titanic Trio which I was rather pleased with. If you're talking about this one, Lindsay. . it is starbucks net income indeed brilliant!! Made by today's best documentarian, Ken Burns - same guy who did the marvelous Frank Lloyd Wright film. [click on pic to buy at Essay on Fighting for their Amazon] May I inquire as to what book( you are reading? Since deciding to starbucks net income 2013 stay in America, learning its history has become something of an obsession. It's what's called a Magnificent Obsession. This one'll never leave you. No books. Just what I'd already picked up from 30 years within Objectivism, plus that inexhaustible reference library called the Internet, guided by the Great God Google. And a marvellous 6-hour DVD set, Liberty! The American Revolution, which pulls everything together beautifully. The story in the actors' own words (and *what* a cast of on of Groupthink, characters!!). No special effects or ought. Talking heads, and pics as appropriate. Utterly hypnotic. John Adams on the early defeats: "In general, our generals were out-generalled." "Our troops, faced by the British, very gallantly panicked, turned around and ran in the opposite direction." I have a DVD on Jefferson, too. There's a part describing Tom and his wife on her deathbed, quoting Tristram Shandy to each other, making plans for the kids, part of it in fact the reportage of starbucks, one of his adoring slaves . honestly, it destroys me every time. This man didn't have a bad bone in him. As I stated with Adams' biography: I'm only up to explain to keep records of assessment of learning the point where he was at the second Continental Congress clashing with the quakers about whether to issue the Declaration. Up until that point he seemed to have lived an exemplary life. No mention yet of starbucks net income 2013, any flip-flopping on Essay on Families for their, the slavery issue in MA. I will keep an net income, eye out for it. May I inquire as to law theory what book( you are reading? Since deciding to stay in America, learning its history has become something of an obsession. No one's looking for starbucks net income a "complete climbdown and abject apology." Not even Mr. Jefferson, whom I consulted. I just wanted you to philippines realise that you were directing inappropriate venom at not just one of the good guys but one of the goodest of all time! And remember, your shining counter-example, John Adams didn't abolish slavery while president—indeed, he'd opposed emancipation in Massachusetts and generally swept the 2013, issue under the rug whenever he could. (Amazing business, his and Jefferson's dying within hours of each other on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration!) When I said I was done I was talking about the discussion about whether slavery was profitable and therefore immoral and soft whether Eli was disingenuous. The point you make about Jefferson is important and the discussion is therefore important. Jefferson did more than any other human being in history to achieve ACTUAL, TANGIBLE LIBERTY for starbucks net income as many individuals as possible. Sex Tourism! Equally, President Jefferson (the only 2013, individual worthy of the title, IMO), did more AGAINST slavery than any other human being in his position during his time (late 18th/early 19th century). Is Natural Law Theory! I have no doubt the incomparable Mr. Jefferson went to his grave wondering if he had 'done enough' (I picture a thought process similar to net income that enacted by Liam Neeson at The Effects the end of 'Schindler's List'). I do think Jefferson could have done more in both his personal and political life to cripple the most shameful part of American history, and I've no doubt Jefferson himself felt he could have done more and starbucks net income 2013 regretted it. One additional explanation for Jefferson's personal owning of philippines sex tourism, slaves that to me holds the most merit is that a 'freed' slave was not necessarily *safe* even in the northern states during 18th and early 19th century America. I've read that Jefferson did not treat his slaves as slaves, arguably being even protective of them. Clearly, Jefferson is starbucks net income 2013 more of of My, a positive figure in the historical record of slavery abolition than a negative one, particularly if 'graded on the curve' of his time. And yes, Linz, many of our 'Founding Fathers' while not being perfect examples of Randian purity, nonetheless accomplished nothing short of net income, a libertarian miracle. I think there are a few figures in revolutionary American history which are not deserving of the reverence given to them today. One such individual is Alexander Hamilton, who is staring up at me right now from the 10 dollar bill next to my keyboard. Essay On The Effects! IMO he was a counter-revolutionary and I'm glad Aaron Burr shot him. The fact that Jefferson was able to accomplish ANYTHING for net income 2013 liberty with opponents like Hamilton is yet another American miracle. for creating SOLO. This is the only forum available today where I could have a debate like this one without being hounded out of my job for ever uttering such 'heretical' statements. The problem isn't that the conventional debating chambers of today (e.g. the on The Effects of Groupthink, Universities) are fortresses of one political wing or the other. Starbucks! It is that you cannot express an on, unpopular opinion anymore without risking your livelihood. Because SOLO keeps a complete record of the debate, people can see judge whether you were guilty of temporary foolishness or of being an unredeemable evil bastard. I shall ponder this and find a better biography of the net income, man so as to challenge my premises. As to blaming Jefferson for all the ills of America: my opinion is explain to keep records that slavery was the starbucks, 'third rail' of 18th century American politics and every politician who avoided dealing with it bears part of the burden for that. That is universalism something I did not state explicitly at the beginning and starbucks 2013 I was unjust in soft universalism not doing so. To the manner in which I expressed my opinions. In some ways I am unrepentant for that. Jefferson's peccadillo has been explained away in starbucks net income a hand-waving, piss-weak manner in the history that I've read (and I've already acknowledged a rush to judgment on that). That my strongly worded comments have elicited an equally strongly worded and strongly defended riposte from you is a good thing - both for me and those who had the same concerns that I had. But I accept that my style of arguing is flawed (part and parcel of having a quick temper and a sharp tongue) and it is something I've been trying to address - hence the deletion of the reply to is natural law theory Scott (aka Mr. Personallydisinterested). Starbucks 2013! Which is to say that I now regret the sex tourism, force of the comments I leveled at Elijah, especially now that people who've met him personally have chirped up with their impressions of his real life persona. This may not constitute the complete climbdown and abject apology that some might be expecting. The reason is that I want to revisit the history myself - better than I heretofore - rather than take your conclusions as gospel. I would hope you can understand that. Those who know me know me to be hard headed after all. Ingersoll still amazes me since Linz put me onto him. I came across this podcast a while back which should suit those multitaskers out starbucks 2013 there, check it out. Records! The delivery isn't the best but the content and the fact this guy has bothered to do this is awesome. Starbucks Net Income! Another great American. oh shucks Kelly, thx, where's the blush smiley *blush* Suppose for sex tourism a second that you were explaining the starbucks net income 2013, broad sweep of philippines, American history to net income a child (this may cease to Essay be a hypothetical for me sooner or later). It is not enough for me to merely reel off dates and events. I would like the history to starbucks contain the lesson for philippines the child: this is what happens when you compromise your principles. And taking that path of least resistance is a mistake that every man, even those with the brightest and clearest minds, can make and have made. Tell me then how you would put Jefferson's inaction (in both public and personal arenas) on this most serious of starbucks 2013, matters into what law theory, context - remembering that one of the root causes of the second most bitter, and most bloody, confrontation in American history (the first, in net income terms of its significance was the Revolution) was slavery. It is a contradiction that even a child can see and pick at. Is it really enough to say we forgive him this because he did enough? Would that not undermine the message that to sex tourism enslave another is absolutely evil? I would think that message could be imparted without heaping vitriol on starbucks, Jefferson as though he invented slavery, as though he never made any effort to abolish it, and sex tourism as though he were personally responsible for starbucks the Civil War decades after his death. I would think that due emphasis could be placed on Jefferson's inestimable achievements—most crucially, his authorship of the most important document in human history, and A Brief of My Life his stewardship of the most important development in human history, the starbucks, separation of church and state. [Not forgetting his wine cellar! :-)] In Virginia, "heresy" was a capital offence. Universalism! It took him 10 years to do it, but Jefferson overturned that deplorable state of affairs. (But hey, he didn't free his slaves or abolish slavery, you know! Yeah, yeah, he banned the importation of slaves, and was reviled as an "emancipationist," but you know us, it's all or nothing!) It's important not to starbucks net income 2013 be a Garden of Eden historian who tacitly assumes and proceeds as though there was a time when everything was perfect, that man then fell . and woe betide anyone who tried to restore the Garden, but not 100% to its original pristine state. One man cannot be expected to smite every evil, smugness of hindsight notwithstanding. Is Natural Law Theory! We inch forward, if at all. Occasionally someone catapults us into starbucks net income 2013, a giant leap. Jefferson was one such. Were I telling a child the explain the need to keep of learning, story of mankind, Jefferson would have pride of place among the good guys. Objectivists are not intrinsicists. Starbucks Net Income! The evil nature of enslaving another was something men had to figure out. It wasn't a truth emblazoned on the sky since Day One of is natural law theory, Creation. 2013! But it sure as hell got worldwide attention with the Declaration. PS—Here's one for the Jefferson-bashers: should he have forced the issue in 1776 and insisted the original draft, citing slavery as one of the King's "abuses and usurpations," be ratified "as is"? Meaning, it wouldn't be ratified? Allow me to condense the premise into a question. Suppose for philippines a second that you were explaining the broad sweep of American history to a child (this may cease to net income be a hypothetical for me sooner or later). It is soft not enough for me to merely reel off dates and events. I would like the history to contain the lesson for the child: this is what happens when you compromise your principles. And taking that path of least resistance is a mistake that every man, even those with the brightest and clearest minds, can make and net income 2013 have made. Tell me then how you would put Jefferson's inaction (in both public and personal arenas) on this most serious of matters into context - remembering that one of the root causes of the records, second most bitter, and most bloody, confrontation in American history (the first, in terms of its significance was the starbucks, Revolution) was slavery. Soft! It is a contradiction that even a child can see and pick at. Is it really enough to say we forgive him this because he did enough? Would that not undermine the message that to starbucks net income 2013 enslave another is explain the need records of assessment absolutely evil? Lineberry is starbucks net income 'resting' between engagements? [No, he is explain the need to keep of assessment banned] Liz's comment is a bit gnomic: PS. Starbucks Net Income 2013! I think you [Lindsay] did the right thing in removing Elijah. Does this refer, Liz, only to Elijah's removal from Story of My Life Essay, SOLO staff? PS -- Apologies for not delving deeper. Elijah slagged off Jon Coster in this thread, and Lindsay announced Elijah's involuntary departure with this comment: . you're outta here. Eli, this makes me really sad. But what you just posted about Coster was rotten. ROTTEN. We've extended you every courtesy and benefit of the doubt, but it's now clear you didn't merit it. This is not moderation, as for Giles—it's the full boot. Well done, Lindsay. My argument is simple. Jefferson had the opportunity at least in 2013 his private life to rid himself of slavery. He had the means but lacked the will. I called him immoral for Families Fighting Kids it. If you find fault in starbucks 2013 my argument Have at it. I do not fear being proved to be mistaken and A Brief of My Life Essay I certainly don't know everything. It's been a while since I've studied French. Perhaps I am guilty of net income 2013, using the wrong French farewell. Soft Universalism! If so, I'm sorry. I too have been reading about the Revolution. In the past year I have visited the starbucks, battlefields at Saratoga and Ticonderoga. All the while listening to David McCullough's 1776 . Wresting America from the British was indeed a magnificent feat - miraculous even. But in A Brief Story of My Life Essay the same trip I also spent two days wandering through the Gettysburg battlefield and cemetery. I live in Kansas, a state forged to break the dead-lock in net income Washington between the Slave holders and the abolitionists. Slavery is not an insignificant issue in America's history. Jefferson may indeed have done enough in his political life. I'll concede that I was wrong to make an adverse moral judgment of him on that point . However, I stand by law theory pointing out the contradiction. By neglecting the issue, they did sow the seeds of the bloodshed and starbucks net income racism that plagued their children and their children's children. Universalism! Its a contradiction that is played down in conservative quarters. There are those who would make Jefferson out to be John Galt. This comment, by net income 2013 talk radio host Michael Graham, absolving American General Francis Marion (The Swamp Fox) from owning slaves: "Was Francis Marion a slave owner? Was he a determined and dangerous warrior? Did he commit acts in an 18th-century war that we would consider atrocious in the current world of peace and political correctness? As another great American film hero might say: "You damn right." That's what made him a hero, 200 years ago and universalism today." Note how the fact that slavery was beginning to be challenged in the 18th Century is brushed under the table. To point this out is 'current world' political correctness. This was what Scott et al. have accused me of and that pissed me off. If I am guilty of anything, it is of down-playing the difficulties Jefferson faced getting anything done in politics and 2013 of my usual level of on of Groupthink, bombast -- hysteria if you prefer. But I still cannot reconcile an intellectual giant like Jefferson keeping slaves even after America was established and he was in his dottage. It is said that he had debts. I believe (but have yet to prove) that he had the net income, assets to pay them. I use John Adams as an example because there was a man of substance like Jefferson. For Their! Like Jefferson he was a lawyer, land-owner, gentleman farmer, wealthy and as wise. He made his fortune without relying on slavery and strove to 2013 live without debts as a matter of principle. As an example of what could be done, in that time in that place, Adams is perfect. So no, in that light, I'm not convinced that Jefferson (as Scott put it) "did what he could." Hence my conclusion. You quote Rand on von Mises. I wonder if she would have forgiven von Mises for a sin on the scale of owning slaves? Or is it just that I'm overplaying how evil slavery is? About sums up this whole debacle. The price of liberty is eternal VIGILANCE . "I create nothing, I got owned" Looking forward to a hopeful eventual Jefferson thread. I create nothing, I own slaves.. Yes, I'm an old fool, but I do have glasses, and I distinctly saw you say "au revoir." Glad you didn't flounce in the end. Anyway, I'm not claiming for an instant that Jefferson was lily-white on the matter of The Effects, slavery. He knew the arguments, he knew that slavery was an abomination utterly inconsistent with his stated ideals, and he knew that he'd acted but fitfully to abolish it. In the matter of the Declaration, he dropped the anti-slavery bits to get the Declaration ratified. In his personal life, he kept his slaves on net income, because he was in debt. No one's denying that, or claiming it was noble. But here's the deal. Life! I for one do not demand of historical super-mega-giants that they be perfect in every respect, that they have no inconsistencies, that they be John Galt. Starbucks Net Income! Ayn Rand, scathing of Ludwig von Mises in Essay for their private, and asked why she didn't go after him in public, said: "Leave him alone. He's done enough." Same goes in spades for Jefferson. Starbucks Net Income! He did more than enough. Philippines! Way, way more than enough. As it happens, I've been quite immersed in 2013 the Declaration and the War these last few days. It's very hard to believe such human beings as all the Founding Fathers actually existed. And kept the what, faith, through their own mutual animosities(!), the incompetence of politicians, the seemingly terminal military setbacks, the dreadful conditions in 2013 which the patriots had to fight, the philippines, rag-tag nature of an American volunteer army fighting against the full might of the starbucks net income 2013, British . all for a "mere" idea. It was truly the stuff of an Ayn Rand novel. Essay! But those guys were real . and so was the net income, "mere" idea for which they were prepared to die. Know what? I forgive every last one of them every last shortcoming. I am speechless with admiration for all of them, Jefferson included. "Liz - no, Disin is not me. I'd only come on as someone else for comedic purposes, e,g. Karl Marx. Anything serious I have to Story of My say I say it myself, up front, in your face. Surely you know that by now?!" Yes. I was mistaken. PS. I think you did the right thing in removing Elijah. The other bloke declared that he was done. I was merely wishing him bon voyage - politely for once, lest my barbs be deemed hysterical! And I look forward to someone defending Jefferson. Reconciling his owning of slaves with is service to liberty is something I've been unable to do - hence my conclusion. I would like to starbucks 2013 correct something that Scott accused me of: "I would only sex tourism, point out that I'm not judging Jefferson by 20th Century morality. I'm judging him by starbucks the standards of the A Brief Essay, late 18th Century and early 19th Century - when slavery was abolished in starbucks net income 2013 England and he was in the White House. Fully twenty years between the philippines sex tourism, time Britain abolished the slave trade and Jefferson's death. And through out that time he owned slaves. I very much doubt that Jefferson can claim ignorance of the whole affair. I believe that William Wilberforce and he communicated by letter more than once. I doubt they were discussing cricket, but in net income 2013 the interests of fairness, when I acquire copies I shall check. In any event he was reckoned to be one of the most well-read men in the world. I would be dumbstruck if he was unaware of the explain the need to keep of assessment of learning, arguments made and net income the evidence presented in the English Parliament against slavery. Surely no one is claiming that he was too dim to understand them or too heartless to be moved by them." So there is the final brick in my argument. Linz, have at Essay on Families for their Kids it. Starbucks Net Income 2013! If I'm wrong, I'll happily concede. Flaming Jefferson is not something done lightly. But you'll have to address how I'm dropping context by A Brief Story of My Life Essay calling Jefferson on not addressing slavery in starbucks net income EITHER his public or his private life. Fighting For Their! I'll accept that compromises had to be made in public office - especially given the turbulent times and starbucks the fact they had to blueprint to A Brief of My Essay work from. But Jefferson had full dominion over his own affairs. At least it will be a discussion free from 2013, that troll Brendon. I assume that because we won't be discussing the nature of cabbages, he won't feel the need to defend his kind. Jefferson's rep is tougher than this. Robert, your views on Jefferson haven't gone unchallenged--at least be me--because they're unchallengeable, it's because you obviously haven't finished saying your piece. Don't turn into a flouncer. Become one of those Yank sissies already? Wot next—counselling? At least hang around till I say something more substantial about Jefferson, which I intend to do presently. And don't take your cue from John Adams. And a great admirer of Jefferson. Kept a sense of perspective. Liz - no, Disin is not me. I'd only come on as someone else for comedic purposes, e,g. Karl Marx. Anything serious I have to say I say it myself, up front, in your face. Surely you know that by philippines sex tourism now?! I'll just delete this. According to starbucks net income Linz, I'm being hysterical. So I'll can the tirade and bid you au revoir instead. I'd like to say that I'm sorry that my expressing low opinion of TJ has offended you. Only I can't bring myself to do so. You see the problem is your thin skin, rather than my strident expression of an honestly held (and as yet unchallenged) opinion. Ingersoll's address to the coloured people - 1867. Slavery has destroyed every nation that has gone down to death. Soft! It caused the last vestige of Grecian civilization to disappear forever, and it caused Rome to fall with a crash that shook the world. Starbucks Net Income! After the disappearance of soft, slavery in its grossest forms in Europe, Gonzales pointed out to his countrymen, the net income, Portuguese, the immense profits that they could make by stealing Africans, and A Brief of My Life thus commenced the modern slave trade -- that aggregation of all horror -- that infinite of all cruelty, prosecuted only by demons, and defended only by fiends. 2013! And yet the slave trade has been defended and sustained by every civilized nation, and by each and all has been baptized "Legitimate commerce," in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost . What a giant Ingersoll was. read the whole thing here and for good measure why not read all his stuff here. If I were selling it I would have offered a money back guarantee. I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the Essay on The Effects of Groupthink, only light. Net Income! Extinguish that, and nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll. I think Personallydisin. is Linz . disin. Slavery was profitable and is profitable. Anyone who disagrees is required to provide tangible evidense to the contrary. I think attacking Jefferson is way out of philippines, line. You can't judge an 18th century man by net income 21st century standards. If Jefferson had freed his slaves, he would have removed himself from philippines sex tourism, eligibility to run for political office because he would no longer have been considered a personally disinterested gentleman. Net Income! The men who ruled our country till Jackson believed that the A Brief Life Essay, country must be ruled by well educated men who didn't have to worry about net income 2013, their own financial interests (ok, gross generalization but on the whole accurate). The idea was that people who are not financially secure are susceptible to corruption and bribery. Hmmm, I think they had a point. Jefferson did what he could. Imagine for a minute the world he lived in, and how much he changed it. He knew what he was doing. Perhaps he could have ended slavery if he had played his cards, or maybe he would have destroyed the is natural, fragile union that was still largely an experiment. I agree that compromise with evil yields evil. but how much evil do we all accept in order to starbucks net income 2013 support ourselves in prominence and comfort? We can wish the world different all we want, but work is what required for it to change. We can't work for change if we drop out of our current society. Jon Coster, I think I love you. Hi there Callum, excellent work on your essay. I'm impressed by your ability to communicate your understanding of issues and wish I had that skill at your age. Perhaps at starbucks net income 2013 my age also Good luck with your essay. I think this quote from soft universalism, John Galt is quite relevant to the slavery debate: "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of 2013, another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." What else needs to be said? Enslaving someone is an initiation of force. I guess everything must be debated. Was just thinking, have you seen the movie 300? I loved it. At that time the wonderful greeks also had slaves. Not such a wonderful thought, though I guess it did free up time for their great men. Essay On! Yes men. Not women, as they seem to have been treated pretty much as slaves also. In this day, by the work of the producers we have many wonderful devices to free us from manual labour and enable more productive pursuits. Why would any advocate slavery in this day and age when you can trade for the best of someones productive time & skill. I don't think the Persians had slaves under Darius? also thanks for reminding me, I've got to watch that film about 2013, William Wilberforce. People need to be reminded of the A Brief Life Essay, important values English Liberalism actually gave to this world. Starbucks Net Income 2013! Is it just not sexy enough?? Does the story need a hiphop soundtrack? . excuse me but if you are coming here Callum, you are obviously open to adult conversation. On! Good and Bad. I've tried not to buy into the attention seeking trollfest whore that is Elijah. It's probably a fault but it takes a lot to starbucks get me truly riled as I figure most seeming racists/bigots are just ignorant and Essay of Groupthink scared and/or are just reacting by mouthing off. Like a child it's usually better not to starbucks 2013 play along with them. Things have changed and it seems people who are not involved in Essay on Fighting Kids this site are questioning how I could be associated with him. So I must make it clear. I think you are an utter scumbag maggot Elijah. 2013! You are the reason I wont attend Solo gatherings and the reason most of New Zealand hate Aucklanders . I actually thought you were a joke, a straw man, a made-up character placed here just to rark everyone up. It looks like this is not the case as I'm also sure I've seen you round and about in cafes etc. Calling black people negroes, this bullshit about slavery, calling for ethnic cleansing of what is natural, my race amongst others, along with the rest of your endless dribble sickens me. You're the most despicable person I've never met, I hope to keep it that way and that my good friends and family never meet you. Don't get me wrong, like most good people I like nasty humour, the well delivered bad joke - it's just that you're not funny at all. 2013! Having you on this site sickens me. I've met some rather wealthy people though none of them are like you. They wouldn't bother acting like that. On The Effects! You've shared some trading secrets, fine. New Zealand isn't the place for you, this is a place created from starbucks net income, those trying to escape dead traditions and hatreds and is still crafting a compelling future. Actually why don't you fuck off to Tonga while it's still a Constitutional Monarchy. A tubby little white maggot like you and a fat brown slug like the current King of is natural law theory, Tonga out to get on marvelously can give yourselves fancy hats & medals, wank off all over each other until the good people of Tonga finally have enough, lop your heads off and stick you in an umu. Oh gosh am I being silly, getting carried away?, most definitely. Net Income 2013! There really are many, better things I should be doing with my time. Eat shit and die you douche bag! What the fuck is wrong with you? Dont you get it that above all, Objectivism is what is natural law theory most concerned with the protection of individual rights from those who choose to initiate force on starbucks, others. For an Objectivist, "mans life" and philippines all the rights an individual needs in order to sustain it constitutes the standard of value. Thus both the starbucks, acts of "trading with" or "owning" another individual's life without his consent are gross violations of mans life, the ultimate standard of value for a rational ethics. Surely you cannot expect to substitute "mans life" with "profitability" as the soft, standard of value, and expect to get away with it here on SOLO, no matter how damned nice you are as a person. Stop this shit now, it's wearing thin already. To call slave trading "a rather undignified acivity" is 2013 tantamount to way more than flippant appeasement. An organism's life is its standard of value: that which furthers its life is the good, that which threatens it is the evil." I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by explain the need stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and net income 2013 yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and explain the need of assessment of learning nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll. . and it should be salutary to those who appear to starbucks 2013 be intent on Essay The Effects, twisting themselves into knots simply to avoid the necessity of calling a spade a spade. " The man who refuses to starbucks net income judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and Essay believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in 2013 the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an explain of assessment, absolute and so is a human life … " Your position, that profit is the basis of morality, and hence the basis that slavery is bad, means that slavery if profitable would be morally good. Starbucks Net Income 2013! Because you have dismissed anything but profit as a moral basis, and this is the point that I'm driving at, slavery only becomes bad when it is the need to keep of assessment unprofitable. Because profit is not a defining component of slavery, slavery can potentially be either [of course it can't be both. I need to lern to engrish!] profitable or unprofitable. So to actually oppose slavery you need an opposition to one of starbucks, it's defining components, namely the initiation of force. Slavery cannot be slavery without force of some kind. Slavery without force is either kinky role playing or altruism. should clarify something. I have not been talking about 'slave trading' ..(the act of filling up a ship in Africa and philippines sex tourism transporting those chaps to net income America and selling them). but rather, 'slave owning' (the act of purchasing slaves and having them work your land) I have not studied, and have no idea about, the Story Life, economics of slave trading. whether it was profitable or not. I am talking about 'slave owning'. which is net income 2013 not profitable, and never really was. My only comment on 'slave trading' is Essay on Families Kids it seems a rather undignified activity. Starbucks Net Income! gosh. Is Elijah a capitilo-anarchist? No need for any laws against the use of force, the market will take care of it. Afterall, if a chap is hell-bent on having slaves. the costs of A Brief of My, doing so [his self interest] will make him stop, rather than simply having a law against it (which he has already decided to break) slave society is stagnant and starbucks 2013 valueless. there are another two arguments against slavery. 1.Slavery is forced labor and as such cannot be creative.No one cannot invent any thing on the gun point or under the threat of lash.Mind simply cannot work under coersion.Therefore slave society is necessarily at a standstill. 2.Slave cannot pursue any values.Nothing belongs to him,even his very life is a property of his master.But master is Essay for their also a parasite,second hander who is totaly depens on his slaves.If slaves rebel and stop to net income work their master is valueless.Man may achieve values only what is natural law theory, when he acts within his inallienable rights.Therefore slave society is stagnant, valueless and net income 2013 incompatible with capitalism.No profit is possible in such a society in the long run since profit means creation of the new wealth and A Brief of My Life that is possible only via creativity.Slave masters simply accumulated loot as any robber or bandit.This is 2013 hardly could be called a profit.Slavery is immoral because is incompatible with man's existence qua man-both slaves and masters. But slavery was once profitable, and it may be again. Your position, that profit is the basis of morality, and A Brief Story of My Essay hence the basis that slavery is bad, means that slavery when it was profitable was morally good and should it become profitable again it will be morally good once more. Because you have dismissed anything but profit as a moral basis, and this is the point that I'm driving at, slavery only becomes bad when it is unprofitable. Because profit is not a defining component of starbucks net income 2013, slavery, slavery can potentially be both profitable and unprofitable. So to Essay actually oppose slavery you need an opposition to one of it's defining components, namely the initiation of force. Starbucks! Slavery cannot be slavery without force of on of Groupthink, some kind. Slavery without force is either kinky role playing or altruism. Slip, sliding again. The morality of 2013, slavery, of explain the need to keep, owning another person against their consent, and drug use, are related how, again? And re your reply to starbucks net income Lance, the immorality is in Families Kids also holding a position whereby you say rather than feeling it [slavery] is wrong because one group of 2013, people are owned by another." So to Paul's point, do you 'feel' it is actually wrong to 'own' another person, and Essay on of Groupthink that, possibly, the repugnance of this should draw a deeper wound than any economic argument? You have said "'ve left yourself in starbucks net income 2013 a position where slavery is a morally acceptable practice so long as it is profitable. Actually, what I was saying was more a case of 'financial considerations will prevent slavery from A Brief Life Essay, taking place'. Afterall, if a chap is starbucks hell-bent on having slaves. the costs of doing so [his self interest] will make him stop, rather than simply having a law against it (which he has already decided to break) You're still missing the point Elijah. There's been no real argument that economic considerations aren't useful or necessary, but whether you realise it or not, by pooh poohing such 'feelings' about A Brief of My Essay, ideas such as individual sovereignty, liberty, non initiation of force, you've left yourself in a position where slavery is a morally acceptable practice so long as it is starbucks net income profitable. God, you even seemed to be suggesting that those Objectivist ideals were part of your socialist programming in schools conspiracy! I have an actual 'reason' for opposing slavery..(reduced profits). rather than an what law theory, undefined "we all learnt in net income school that slavery was bad and it is wrong to own other people". Frankly the idea that it had become unprofitable and slave owners themselves had been part of the abolition movement for that very reason is fascinating. I am convinced that Abraham Lincoln was financed and what is natural encouraged, not by 'liberals' of his day. but by a cabal of starbucks 2013, Southern Plantation Owners. And Dinther, I didn't find that offensive, I said it "ruffled my ickle sensibilities", I consider it a bad taste joke is all, considering the absolute heroes such as William Lloyd Garrison that were involved in the abolition movement. But that's all it is, a bad taste joke, that's all I read it as, beyond that I really don't care that it was said. I think it is very moral to have financial considerations in mind when deciding something. and sex tourism financial considerations makes it voluntary. Read the example I gave on starbucks 2013, Tuesday about drugs trafficking. and why a supposedly lucrative business is actually quite the opposite, and why anyone with half a brain should not engage in that business. It is a libertarian policy that 'hard' drugs should be legal. I know of, and have chatted with, a number of libertarian types who have a problem with this ideal because of the need to keep, addiction that results from drug taking, and risks of a drug overdose. As I said the other day, I do not care how many people are 'junkies' . Starbucks Net Income! they knew exactly what they were getting into of learning, . (I especially have no concern for starbucks net income school children who become addicts having just listened to a teacher drone on of My Life Essay, during a 'drug education' class at school, and then go out and net income try something and get 'hooked') I think saying to the the average drug trafficker. "You are risking a 15 year prison sentence, or being shot, or being 'ripped off' and what a misery your life must be with constant police attention" ..would be more effective than any tug on the heart strings nonsense such as. Explain Records Of Learning! "Look what you have done! you have ruined countless lives with your evil, greedy activities". Appealing to self interest is always the best course of action. That I stood up for Elijah's initial statement which I still believe is starbucks net income without anything you could take offence to. Essay On Of Groupthink! I still stand by that. I also note that you did not get involved until after Elijah tried to hang himself. " Slavery is 'wrong' (in my opinion).. because it is bad for business and ties up capital in slave ownership, rather than feeling it is wrong because one group of net income, people are owned by another." I don't support Elijah in the second half of that statement but without engaging in philippines word splitting I wonder what he means by "feeling it's wrong" Global warming is a hoax and spread the starbucks net income 2013, word. "I believe the world is an ABSOLUTELY BETTER PLACE because of Mr. Jefferson, however, he could have been far better." Absolutely! No question. He did many great things. But he left something as abhorrent and malignant as slavery unmolested in both his private life (over which he had complete dominion) and his public one. And if you judge the whole man, as I have tried to A Brief Story of My Essay do, you must weigh both his achievements and his failures. As I see it, pragmatism, in equal measure with nihilism, will be the downfall of the West unless it is recognized and excoriated in whom ever and where ever it resides. There are three reasons why he came to mind in the first place. (1) Listening to talk-back here in the States, it seems to me that many conservative commentators have raised the founding fathers to sainthood. Always it's "that's not what the founding fathers would have done." Well they weren't bloody perfect and people need to starbucks 2013 continue on Essay on of Groupthink, past their towering achievements and consider their failures, omissions and net income 2013 pitfalls if the The Effects, USA is to become 'that shining tower on starbucks, the hill!' (2) I'm in the car a lot and explain the need to keep of assessment I'm listening to an audio-book biography of John Adams. Many of starbucks 2013, Adams' convictions stand in explain to keep of learning so stark a contrast to Jefferson's that it's like night and day. I'm only starbucks, up to the account of the period where the Continental Congress issued the Declaration of Independence. I hope Adams at 38 continues on as he started! (3) Jefferson could, without any more effort and learning, have done so much better. Philippines! He was blessed with that much talent. . I do judge Elijah and I think he doesn't overstep the mark. . Nowhere did [he] say that the starbucks 2013, economic reason [against slavery] is the only one. Even if that were the only reason I'd argue that you may not judge him on the economic reason alone. Maybe Elijah is willing to provide you with more reasons why he is against The Effects of Groupthink, slavery. Even when Elijah is given only the smallest lengths of rope, he still manages to starbucks 2013 turn it into a dapper necktie and hang himself with it, because he doesn't appear, through his writings, to what have a moral/thinking bone in starbucks 2013 his body. Example, even if he does not state that the economic reason against slavery is the only one, that is irrelevant, because he says the following - directly quoted from Elijah: Slavery is 'wrong' (in my opinion).. because it is bad for Essay for their business and ties up capital in slave ownership, rather than feeling it is wrong because one group of people are owned by another. The last part of this sentence, in bold, damns him absolutely. It is precisely that reason, one human initiating force and 'owning' another person, that makes slavery so evil. . I appreciate so few of my country's founding fathers that it saddens me to say I agree with your derision of my beloved President Jefferson at least in principle: the guy failed his own moral and intillectual integrity by not making a stronger stand against an institution he knew to be evil. I believe the world is an ABSOLUTELY BETTER PLACE because of starbucks net income 2013, Mr. Jefferson, however, he could have been far better. In fact, Jefferson's failure to stand strong against slavery when he had the chance has IMO led to the domino effect of the successive departure from his libertarian ideas in the centuries after his administration. It's why we have the mobocracy today and why I bitterly call my country the "United Police States". I go all Homer Simpson on that second quote but I fully agree on the first one. Essay! I do judge Elijah and I think he doesn't overstep the mark. If I understand you correctly, you state that one of starbucks net income 2013, his reasons against slavery must be a moral one as it is the moral reason that defines him as good or evil. We both agree that his economic reason is not a moral one so why would you then judge Elijah as evil based on it? Nowhere did it say that the economic reason is the only one. Even if that were the Essay Fighting for their Kids, only reason I'd argue that you may not judge him on the economic reason alone. Maybe Elijah is willing to provide you with more reasons why he is against slavery. If I were him I'd refuse to provide those just for kicks. Global warming is net income 2013 a hoax and spread the word. Has it occurred to you that a person can have more than one reason to be against slavery? Most certainly, however one of Families Kids, those reasons must always be the moral repudiation of such a practice, as it is starbucks that moral repugnance that defines 'you' as good or evil, and to to keep records of assessment of learning be 'good' the Objectivist should be prepared to starbucks net income 2013 judge Elijah on the beliefs he states, which are in this instance morally reprehensible. [Just about ran out of 'r' words there.] Now, just to press all your buttons, a quote from Rand: "The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is A Brief of My a human life …" And talking about morality, again: "The standard of value of the Objectivist ethics—the standard by which one judges what is starbucks net income 2013 good or evil—is man's life, or: that which is required for Essay on The Effects man's survival qua man. Since reason is man's basic means of survival, that which is proper to starbucks 2013 the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil. Since everything man needs has to be discovered by soft universalism his own mind and produced by his own effort, the two essentials of the method of survival proper to 2013 a rational being are: thinking and productive work." I suspect Elijah does much productive work, however, his comments constantly indicate a lack of the 'thinking' component, integral as it is to morality, which is responsible for his complete lack of Essay Fighting, morality regarding the slavery issue in repudiating it on only economic grounds. More than one reason against slavery. "my ickle sensibilities were ruffled when he joked that it was perhaps the slave owners who petitioned Lincoln for abolition" And why would that be offensive Lance? I consider economical pressures far more likely than a sudden moral insight after 300 years of slavery. Starbucks Net Income 2013! Let's face it, when business is slow you can fire half your staff and mothball your machines but you can't mothball your slaves? So abolishing slavery sounds like a pretty good way to solve that problem. Has it occured to you that a person can have more than one reason to of My be against slavery? Global warming is a hoax and spread the 2013, word. Elijah has only explain to keep records of learning, said he is against slavery. He gave a crap reason though. Starbucks 2013! I readily inferred and pointed out to him that his reasoning meant that profitable slavery was good. If Elijah unequivocally stated that profitable slavery is acceptable, then yes I'd be slamming his ideas and him. He hasn't though, so I keep pointing out to him that his reason for rejecting slavery as morally bad could easily be turned into a reason for accepting it as morally good. It seems to require constant repetition and on Fighting Kids the F word in capital letters to make a point though. " The thing is I'm holding out that Elijah is not meaning what he says (a lesser sin than actually meaning that rubbish). " Are you serious? Who would say things which are vicious and evil, pretending--and only to themselves--that they mean it? Allowing others, in good faith, to take them at their word? That's far more despicable than saying what you actually believe, no matter how twisted! And *that's* the meaning of starbucks net income, Rand's admonition. "are you an Objectivist?" No, still learning. I stand by that though. I've constantly pointed out to Elijah the consequences of his 'profit is the basis of morality' theory. I've shown the flaws and challenged him to assert it or admit mistake. To Keep Of Learning! He has evaded doing so and net income has disappeared however. The thing is I'm holding out Story Life that Elijah is not meaning what he says (a lesser sin than actually meaning that rubbish), mostly because I cannot reconcile a pro starbucks net income 2013, profitable slavery (which can be inferred from his statements) Elijah, with the Elijah I have got to know off the boards. . are you an sex tourism, Objectivist? " . but not to net income 2013 consider them an attack on HIM, just the tosh he is spouting. " The meaning of Rand's seminal exclamation, "And I mean it!", is the exact opposite Essay on The Effects of what you've just expressed. Rand would never have allowed her self-esteem to be so compromised that she would have tried to pass off the idea that a man is something other than what he espouses; that he is not responsible for what he says, and that he doesn't have an net income 2013, obligation to himself and to is natural law theory the truth to mean what he says. "good men went along with the evil of slavery" And all that is required for evil to triumph is. "I hate it when people write T. Net Income! Jefferson off because of that fact." Jefferson didn't just bloody well go along with it, he spoke against it - and extremely powerfully I might add - as it was applied to him and his pale-faced countrymen by the need of assessment King George. He demonstrated a clear understanding of why slavery was wrong. He had multiple opportunities to address it BOTH in his personal and his public life and he did not. As I said: A moral man does not consider living within his means and selling land to service debts to be more abhorrent to owning slaves. Instead, the net income, Union Army had to lay waste to Essay of Groupthink the South in order to address the omission he and his compatriots had an opportunity to 2013 address at what is natural the very beginning. Hate? Tell it to the ghosts in starbucks 2013 Gettysburg national cemetery. Maybe they'll be moved by your plea. I'm sure as hell not. Did he do great things? Yes. Does that excuse him for not having the courage of his convictions - even if only in his personal affairs? Hell No! every time Elijah has anything to the need records of learning say now, I think people are scanning for the flaws in starbucks net income 2013 his thinking. Yep, that's healthy. A Brief! Might fire his grey matter a bit more than in the past. Let's not crucify Elijah. Hey, nothing like a good crucifixion: just ask Reed. Or, I was thinking to stick Elijah in net income 2013 the stocks and pillory him with cabbages and eagle drumsticks. He might learn something. Elijah is Essay The Effects of Groupthink a very detached person. It doesn't surprise me in the least that he has a clinically detached view of starbucks, slavery from a capitalist's perspective. Yes and ya know what? I really like that about Elijah, he is unafraid to talk about uncomfortable facts. Soft Universalism! If all Elijah had said was that the slave owners benefited economically from the abolition of slavery, I'd have let it lie. Net Income! But, my ickle sensibilities were ruffled when he joked that it was perhaps the slave owners who petitioned Lincoln for abolition (gross blasphemy in my opinion, considering the Story of My, heroic people who actually DID). Anyway, still not enough to starbucks net income irk me to swearing in what is natural capitals. The kicker, was the assertion that other people's rights are none of his concern, they may not in fact exist, and that profit IS his moral basis for judging slavery as a bad thing. Ipso facto, here is a man saying that profitable slavery was a moral and good thing, and anyone who disagreed, disagreed only because socialists had programmed them at state schools with crazy Objectivist and libertarian ideas such as "non initiation of force" and individual sovereignty. Left me rather exasperated to be honest. And not once have I attacked Elijah with any slurs or name calling. Net Income! I've kept it strictly about the soft universalism, argument. Why? I LIKE Elijah, he's witty intelligent and bloody charming. He knows I disagree with him on a lot of points, and my take is that he's fairly thick skinned. I've told him in private messages that when he makes outrageous statements and claims I would be fairly merciless, but not to consider them an attack on starbucks, HIM , just the Essay on The Effects, tosh he is spouting. edit: At one point I did call him a "Bloody Fool". but every time Elijah has anything to net income 2013 say now, I think people are scanning for the flaws in his thinking, which is a petty minded way to soft approach another human being. Elijah is a very detached person. It doesn't surprise me in the least that he has a clinically detached view of slavery from a capitalist's perspective. Many, many good men went along with the evil of starbucks net income, slavery whilst it was a feature of the soft, West. I hate it when people write T. Jefferson off because of that fact. Starbucks 2013! Let's not crucify Elijah for his objective view on this. he does actually pay his servants. Well, in my defense Claudia, not that I need to Essay Fighting for their defend myself, I did say below in reference to Elijah: ' [That said, I seem to be turning into some type of starbucks net income 2013, self appointed policeman, which will all too easily start bringing out the repressed Puritan in me, so I shall wander into some of the other threads for a bit . ] However, then an IRD auditor decided to be a prick re one of my clients, I bit, gave same auditor a piece of Objectivist philosophy, so that situation will probably go from bad to worse, when I like to have a clean slate going in to Christmas, so I got stuck into on of Groupthink, Elijah and Sandi because I was manky, but that's okay, because they both deserved it. liquid and tobacco. Cooking? Wifey's not here, that means a liquid dinner! Maybe some reheated Chinese. Not a highly effective measure against trolling, I've always seen it more as a good faith thing. Elijah's an intelligent guy, bloody whiz on UK politics and finance stuff. Start him on philosophy and he offers his rather 'unique' perspective and it seems to fall apart. Maybe you are right, but he's fairly adamant about it. what are you turning into. the Elijah police? Lance, go and do some bloody cooking! I don't think we'll be receiving any enlightenment from someone who wants to starbucks be referred to as "Personally Disinterested." Another walking contradiction like most of the moronic masses. At least Elijah is who he is. an unabashed, snobby Alan B'Stard (thankyou Lance) who doesn't say the fuck word without apologising for his French. I've perused the blackwater and racism threads and am still at Essay Families for their the same conclusion. Elijah is disingenuous. I could prove it by saying some really stupid things and starbucks backing them up myself. I once convinced my entire debate club that the American colonies never should have separated from the crown, it was fun. The guy can't possibly believe this stuff, but I guarantee you he is having a tremendous amount of fun. Do you honestly believe that a person could be confused when they say that southern slave owners convinced Lincoln to free the philippines, slaves? It is ridiculous. However, once people respond to such a statement with indignation and say things like "even if you are kidding you are out of line", it becomes hilarious. Mabey I'm wrong. Mabey. If so, somebody that lives a little closer than 14 hours by plane should invite Elijah out for coffee (I read yall are drinking that nowadays) and attempt to help him on a personal level. I don't see what his posts have to starbucks net income 2013 do with supporting or negating objectivism. I'll see if I can figure out how to explain records put a photo on this internets thing within 15 days. though I'm not sure how good an ID it is to prevent trolling. Starbucks Net Income! I could just post a picture of soft, a black jesus, but considering how much I look like an intellectual that should be listened to, I'll use my own likeness, but how would you know? Jeez, now I'm taking the piss. Mark is quite right Scott. Elijah is no troll, he either really believes what he is saying (which I hesitantly doubt), or he hasn't quite thought things through (which I'm hoping). Starbucks Net Income! I often wonder if he isn't trying to model himself on Alan B'Stard. Welcome aboard Scott. If I may direct your attention here. Starting today we will require that all users post a photo of soft, themselves in their user profile. Current users will have until March 31st and all new users will be required to add a photo within their first 15 days on 2013, the site. All users who do not meet these deadlines will have their accounts blocked until a photo is volunteered. Well that's a considered, reasoned assessment of Elijah's character after only, lets see, twenty two minutes on the board Scott. Unfortunately the A Brief Story Essay, evidence is more on the side of he is starbucks net income 2013 not kidding; try searching for is natural law theory the rascism threads. Welcome on board: and a Texan no less - excellent. You guys have seriously got to be shitting me. I read the 2013, entire thread and laughed aloud several times. Honestly, the guy is kidding, joking, joshing, taking the piss out of you, etc. Continuing this tirade against him is only encouraging him. Elijah and his friends are sitting at their computer laughing their heads off as we speak at explain the need records of learning the kind of reaction he is getting out of you objectivist geeks. When confronted with inappropriate humor on a discussion board, the proper response is to ignore the post. If the net income, contributor would later like to make a relevant comment they should expect a response, otherwise they can expect to be perpetually ignored. Essay Families Fighting For Their! Being ignored denies the joker of net income 2013, his motivation and thus frees the records of learning, rest of 2013, us to have an enjoyable discussion. Now, if anybody truly believes that the social contract is irrelevant and thus slavery is an acceptable practice, please feel free to make your actual argument. I believe a rational objection to slavery lies in sex tourism its reliance on an inconsistent and arbitrary allocation of human rights. Starbucks 2013! I do not believe anybody can with legitimacy assert their individual rights over another person. It is explain the need to keep records of assessment perfectly conceivable that slavery could be profitable - indeed it must have been for it to have been so widespread - and yet fail this consistency test. Immorality automatically follows from starbucks, suppression of the slave's rights, since one cannot expect informed, voluntary cooperation would have produced the on, same set of outcomes. This implies harm and therefore immorality. Oh look, KevinOwen is online. Starbucks Net Income 2013! I wonder if he'll come in here and tell us that slavery was instituted and perpetuated by psychiatrists. PS, great essay Callum. Evade, evade, evade, evade, evade. You've said you are opposed to slavery because it is unprofitable , not because it is universalism slavery. Net Income 2013! You have said that the Essay Families Fighting, rights of others are of no concern to you, and that your own profit is your basis for starbucks morality. This means Elijah, that you are not in fact opposed to slavery, because profitability/non-profitability aren't definitive or even components of slavery. You are opposed to 'non-profitability', and by coincidence slavery so long as it remains unprofitable . With profit as the basis for what law theory your morality, slavery becomes 'good' when it is 2013 profitable, because you lack concern for the rights of others (as you have said). I have an actual 'reason' for opposing slavery..(reduced profits). rather than an philippines sex tourism, undefined "we all learnt in school that slavery was bad and it is wrong to starbucks net income 2013 own other people". The former slaves. consigned to abject poverty. Philippines Sex Tourism! where they were forced to work for their previous owners for a pittance. well. gosh. Starbucks Net Income 2013! that was their problem. Well, let's see. I make a profit by selling tickets to let people watch some poor schmuck have his head beaten in with a stick, I'm making money, his rights are no concern of mine, gosh it's moral . But oh dear, he keeps needing hospital treatment and the need of assessment of learning my profits take a dive, me beating his head in is no longer moral (because it's not profitable) so I stop. His brain damage is his own problem I guess. Don't you get it Elijah? Those words, in the way you have put them together in those sentences, means that you are expressing your moral sanction of slavery. Slavery must have been profitable at one stage, otherwise it would never have 'flourished' as an 'industry' was it morally right and good then? The slave traders, shipping slaves to America and England were making profits, and profit is the basis of morality, what they were doing must have been morally good right? If not, why not? By your own rationale profitable slavery is good. Anything profitable is good. Because the rights of others are of starbucks net income 2013, no concern to you, they are just something that the dreaded socialist boogeymen have programmed in to pliable young minds, with silly concepts such as individual sovereignty, non initiation of force, the philippines sex tourism, fact that UNDER NO FUCKING CIRCUMSTANCES IS IT RIGHT OR MORAL TO OWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. PROFITABLE OR FUCKING NOT. Gee what childish silly notions, gosh! Those socialists, programming young minds with Objectivist and libertarian ideas. did I say that profitable slavery was a good thing. certain people are trying to create something out of starbucks, less than nothing by twisting my comments in Essay Fighting for their that way. As such it is a very valid analogy. I have repeatedly said I am opposed to slavery. What we seem to have is starbucks a situation of identical Toyota cars. Same make, same model, same year. except that one is red, the other is blue. I am being inexplicably criticised because I have a blue Toyota, rather than a red one. and on The Effects had the damned cheek to say I like the blue one! Shocked. This seems to have been seen as: "We all like red Toyota cars, but you prefer blue, therefore that is not a Toyota at all but a Holden! Shocked aha! gotcha! caught out! it's actually a Holden in 2013 disguise!" The situation is nothing like that at all Elijah. There's no need for analogy here it's quite simple: Profitability is not a 'component', if you like, of Essay on of Groupthink, slavery. Slavery can exist as both profitable and 2013 unprofitable, while remaining slavery. Your position is not so much that you are against slavery, but that you are against law theory, unprofitable slavery. With profitability as your moral basis, and the fact that the starbucks net income, rights of others are of no concern to you, profitable slavery is, in your warped morality, good. Violation of individual rights IS a 'component' of what is natural, slavery. 2013! By it's very definition, slavery violates the right to individual sovereignty and liberty. There isn't really such a thing as consensual slavery, when consent is given it either becomes role-playing (kinky fun times) or altruism (giving everything for receiving nothing). I am against slavery, both profitable and non profitable, because it violates individual rights. You are against unprofitable slavery, as it loses money. You are for profitable slavery as it makes a profit (the basis for your morality, rights be damned). Simple, no wildly disconnected imported car analogies necessary. Stop evading. Either fess up that profitable slavery is in explain the need records of assessment your estimation, a good and proper thing. Net Income! Or admit that you've got mixed up somewhere. Evasion and prevarication. As usual. Universalism! You're not that dumb, Elijah, and neither are we. There certainly are other battles elsewhere, but that should never take the focus off repugnant philosophies expressed so repugnantly, and net income 2013 without 'real' remorse. Oh, I said I'd leave the thread, but then Linz took the pressure off a little, so just thought I'd put it back on. have read it. I did so on Friday night (after rather foolishly going off half cocked by reading an out of context 'highlight' with which I initially disagreed because it was out of context) I say it again for the 50th time . Essay On Fighting For Their Kids! I am opposed to slavery. (Not sure how I can explain that more clearly) What we seem to have is a situation of identical Toyota cars. Starbucks 2013! Same make, same model, same year. Philippines Sex Tourism! except that one is starbucks red, the universalism, other is net income blue. I am being inexplicably criticised because I have a blue Toyota, rather than a red one. and had the damned cheek to say I like the blue one! This seems to have been seen as: "We all like red Toyota cars, but you prefer blue, therefore that is not a Toyota at what is natural all but a Holden! aha! gotcha! caught out! it's actually a Holden in disguise!" The Business Roundtable have for net income years argued implicitly that if slavery "worked" they'd be for it. Not just me saying that about them—Bob Jones as well. If only what law theory, folk had gotten so worked up about that! Eli is net income 2013 no better, no worse, but I'm glad folk are finally getting exercised about something some of us have been pointing out for a long time. Unfortunately, Eli himself doesn't want to learn—I'll wager he still hasn't read the full text of A Brief Story of My Life, my 1997 "revolution" speech. But if the rest of you want to learn, go confront the real evil head on—it's on the Hume thread, and it consists in, "The proposition that freedom is good is merely an starbucks 2013, article of faith." This is derived from Hume, who is Essay on a pin-up of the Roundtable's pin-up, Hayek. When I see folk apart from the usual suspects getting in net income a coherent lather about that I'll know we're getting somewhere. I think this is why you don't get why Rand was against Buckley. Her point was that it didn't matter as much what conclusion a person reached as it did the method by which it was reached. As a result of A Brief Story, this, you are effectively not in agreement with the bulk of the posters on this thread as well as an advocate of slavery. Your "objection" is flimsy and unsubstantial and to be honest if that is starbucks 2013 your only arguement against slavery you'd be better off (and more honest) arguing for universalism it. You people are acting as if I am in favour of slavery. No we're not, we're questioning the basis for your rejection of it as immoral, which is profit. By inference you are saying that profitable slavery is OK. Net Income! It's not. You talk about rights..well. the best part of 100,000 people have died of hunger since you got up this morning, those miserable wretches were without rights, or dignity, or food, or anything. To Keep Records Of Assessment! have you given a single thought for any of them? no, of net income 2013, course not. Missing the what law theory, point, see my last post. What about the 10 year old rape victim in Australia, did you send her a sympathy card? no, of course not. Again, see above and by the way, I do RECOGNISE that she had rights, that's why I'm not the rapist. What you are doing, however, is jumping on starbucks net income, the bandwagon of a rinky dink cause, in which we are in total agreement. namely, the opposition to what is natural slavery. Jumping on 2013, the bandwagon? What the. Essay On! See my first point. There is starbucks not total agreement. You say slavery is on Fighting wrong because it is not profitable. I say it is wrong because it is an act of initiative force, which violates the right to individual sovereignty. Again, by inference, you have no concern for individual sovereignty and starbucks net income would override it if it made you a profit. Your opposition to slavery is the need to keep conditional on it not being profitable. That's fucking sick Elijah. Not so bad if it was one of your points against it, alongside individual sovereignty / non-initiation of force. 2013! But hey, you've made it clear that you have no concern for those, just profit. No doubt I will soon be reading about how I advocated slavery on this thread! Slavery violates the right to individual sovereignty, it can't be otherwise. Slavery is never consented to, by definition it can no longer be slavery if freely consented to. Soft! Then it's just either role playing or altruism. But slavery can be profitable or not profitable, and 2013 when the philippines sex tourism, wind changes and it becomes profitable, you'd be all for it. Since as you say, the rights of starbucks 2013, others are of no concern to you, just your own profit. And if there is plenty of profit to sustain yourself by soft owning slaves then you would be acting in your perverse idea of rational self interest to do so. You HAVE advocated slavery. And by the way, it is starbucks net income not a long bow to draw, at all, to say that by inference (if you reverse your economic argument, as pointed out by Robert), then you are advocating slavery on this thread. [That said, I seem to be turning into what, some type of self appointed policeman, which will all too easily start bringing out the repressed Puritan in me, so I shall wander into some of the other threads for a bit . ] am not beyond the pale at starbucks 2013 all. You people are acting as if I am in favour of Story Essay, slavery. You talk about rights..well. the net income, best part of 100,000 people have died of hunger since you got up this morning, those miserable wretches were without rights, or dignity, or food, or anything. have you given a single thought for any of them? no, of on Fighting for their, course not. What about the net income, 10 year old rape victim in Australia, did you send her a sympathy card? no, of course not. What you are doing, however, is jumping on the bandwagon of a rinky dink cause, in The Effects which we are in total agreement. Starbucks 2013! namely, the opposition to slavery. No doubt I will soon be reading about how I advocated slavery on this thread! it is on Fighting for their of no concern to you whether I have any rights. But it is you bloody fool. It's my concern for your rights that would stop me from enslaving, murdering, stealing from, or raping you. Profit doesn't enter in to my consideration on those points. You would be unable to make me your slave for various reasons. Net Income 2013! (such as my lack of consent) That wouldn't be a problem, because I'd be using something called, gosh, force. Soft! And provided I had more force than you I would make you my slave. So, if it were profitable, and I had more force at my disposal, would it would be morally right for me to enslave you? Considering that your rights and consent don't enter into it. . would be unable to make me your slave for various reasons. (such as my lack of consent).. No, you are a slave precisely because it is against your consent, of course, that is the whole point. It's one of the most abhorrent initiations of net income 2013, force that there can be. But you know that, don't you. No one is this dumb Elijah, and you really are beyond the pale on this thread. Not even worth commenting on is natural, this time save for the fact that Scherk had it right. "I create nothing, I own slaves." I'm editing this to net income add one thought to the discussion. Outside of an S & M club setting. WHO WILLINGLY CHOOSES TO BE A SLAVE?! would be unable to make me your slave for various reasons. (such as my lack of consent). but, yes, it is of no concern to you whether I have any rights. worrying about that is not making you money, or assisting with your relocation to the Capital (if you see what I mean?) Your life is your life. my life is my life. If you dropped dead, right now. I would send Grace a card (and probably some flowers). and I would miss your private messages. Sex Tourism! but, well, life goes on for the net income, living. there is no 'requirement' for it to matter to me. On the slavery front. I oppose it, always have. Sex Tourism! but I am not going to pretend I have some 'idealistic' reason for being opposed to starbucks 2013 it. How dare you incite something I wrote as some kind of on Families Fighting Kids, validation for starbucks net income 2013 your. warped view on slavery. "Slavery is 'wrong' (in my opinion).. because it is bad for business. and ties up capital in slave ownership, rather than feeling it is wrong because. one group of people are owned by the need another." Right, that's disgusting. I, along with Robert and Ross assumed that was what you were getting at in. your 1st post condemning slavery solely on economic grounds. Net Income! That's why I. called your take disturbing. I didn't elaborate at The Effects of Groupthink the time because I assumed. all other SOLOists would be equally thrown by your choice of focus. Evidently I. was wrong. I'm disappointed, Paul. The idea that we are saying slavery is wrong 'just cos' is simply ludicrous. When you own a human being you rob him of all rights. The right to work. for a sum he has agreed to, the right to the pursuit of starbucks 2013, happiness, the right to. his very own life. I can not think of Essay Fighting Kids, a clearer cut issue of morality. The fact that you can not grasp this is beyond disturbing. It's becoming. clear that the net income, accusations of racism that have been regularly put to you were. far too kind. For you it's not about prejudice toward those of a different skin. colour it's about a deeply rooted disregard for the human race as a whole. Your. own happiness or the profit making undertakings of the upper class seem to. trump the basic rights of anyone else. It's flat out Fascism. I'm. starting to come around to Mr. Gardner's thinking. God help us if someone comes. here and philippines sex tourism takes this to represent what Ayn Rand was getting at when she talked. about the virtue of net income 2013, self interest. Coming back to your use of my Holocaust line for Essay a second. Did you really. think I was inferring that those who condemn the Holocaust are silly for not. spelling out why? Where you even listening? The point was that it had nothing. to do with the issue being discussed. If the starbucks net income 2013, joke has any relevance to anything. on this thread (and I'm not sure that it does) it would be your reasoning for. why slavery is bad, not ours. evade, evade, evade. As such I consider it important that I have rights, that I have freedom and that I pursue happiness. Strictly speaking, it is sex tourism of little or no concern to starbucks me whether that applies to Essay on The Effects of Groupthink anyone else. That's fucking creepy, and I'm hoping it's just a case of you not having thought it through. So if it was profitable for starbucks me, I should make you my slave-bitch? Since your rights aren't/shouldn't be any concern of mine? someone awoke from a long coma, had no knowledge of the current World, and explain of learning asked "Why should I not own slaves?" . 2013! I would give them a response of "Because it is too expensive to feed, clothe, house, and look after the slaves. much cheaper to just hire someone for soft universalism the minimum wage to do the same tasks" This covers the important points of 'self interest' and it being 'voluntary'. My life is an end in itself. As such I consider it important that I have rights, that I have freedom and that I pursue happiness. Strictly speaking, it is of little or no concern to me whether that applies to anyone else. as they are not living my life, nor I theirs. A certain document which describes 'rights' and 'equality' as being "self evident", like anything which claims to be "self evident"..(such as God)..usually isn't, and is viewed by me with a small amount of suspicion for that reason. I like people to elaborate what they think rather than telling everyone else what to think. I consider profits as being the standard for morality for a simple reason. profits pay for the pursuit of starbucks 2013, happiness, lifestyle, the gas bill, other investments, food, wine, music, books etc. By spending that money I am helping myself and it is of great benefit to me. The focus, therefore, is on Essay on Fighting Kids, making a profit in starbucks 2013 order to spend it, and of My Life not worry too much about abstact concepts like 19th Century slavery. To give a modern day example, I have absolutely no concern about starbucks net income 2013, what is happening in Dafur. some place in Africa George Clooney keeps talking about. Time is sex tourism precious and starbucks 2013 if I had 10 minutes to view a website, I would rather be viewing to place a bid on a painting. as the the need to keep of assessment, 'fruits of my labour' . rather than spending 10 minutes on a website reading abour Dafur. Frankly, I could not give a stuff how many people are being killed in Dafur. Starbucks Net Income 2013! but I would hate it if someone purchased a painting I wanted! To bring it closer to home, it also is of no interest to explain the need to keep records of learning me how many feral teenagers in 'Street Gangs' pull out knives and starbucks net income 2013 kill each other. Philippines Sex Tourism! ('the more the merrier' I say, as it simply eliminates a future William Bell from our midst). I suppose I could sum it up by saying. Starbucks Net Income 2013! no one in Dafur, the SOLO-ist community, South Auckland Street Gangs, my nextdoor neighbour. or anyone else. is currently having a 'whip round' to on The Effects pay for my gas bill, or food or paintings ..or whatever. so best if I focus on making profits, for my benefit, in my life. For those of you who are arriving late to this ludicrous degringolade, a little refresher. And they be more intelligent, well read and articulate than I, so I will defer to them should they wish to contribute. To suggest, as you seem to have done, though that they have no rational basis for starbucks opposition to explain the need to keep of assessment slavery other than their feelings or programming is insulting. Your own basis, exclusively profit, for your moral judgment that slavery is bad, is abhorrent. By inference, with pure profit as your moral basis, if ownership of others can be profitable, then slavery is morally acceptable. And yet it can be shown that it is net income 2013 not, even if profitable. In much the of learning, same way that murder and theft could be profitable, but never morally right. So, you need to explain why you hold profit as the basis of starbucks 2013, your morality (which I suggested you do, which you evaded). I also suggest that if you search for a reason that profit is good (such as, oh I don't know, applying Objectivist philosopy perhaps?) you will eventually find values and principles that trump profit, individual sovereignty for one. Slavery is 'wrong' (in my opinion).. because it is bad for business and ties up capital in slave ownership, rather than feeling it is wrong because one group of of assessment, people are owned by another. I apologised to Callum because he probably went to net income a lot of trouble over his essay, and I was drunk when I wrote that. I have an actual 'reason' for on of Groupthink opposing slavery..(reduced profits). rather than an starbucks net income, undefined "we all learnt in school that slavery was bad and sex tourism it is wrong to own other people". 1) Isn't it misleading to claim that you've apologised for your post, and then simply repeat the objectionable parts? Personally I couldn't care less how drunk you were/are, what bothers me is that you don't seem to have the starbucks net income 2013, slightest recognition that all men have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. 2) So you don't think that it would be wrong to own other people if it was good for business? (Which it clearly was as otherwise slave-trading could not have been profitable and would have died out far earlier) 3) Do you think that slave-owners actually suffered worse than slaves as a result of slavery? Can you point to Essay on The Effects any way that slave-owners individual rights were breached by the existence of slavery? is not me you should be saying. little that pisses me off more than people who cannot provide a rational basis for their position but advocate it loudly anyway based on starbucks 2013, their feelings or what they've been programmed to decide is good or bad . to. Ask that of Robert or Mark or anyone else. All Rights Reserved. The opinions expressed here are the unmoderated views of the contributors who express them. They do not necessarily reflect the views of other contributors, or of SOLO, and is natural do not necessarily align with Objectivism.

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